Terrorism is done by NGOs. When it’s a governmental actor it’s warcrimes.
What a confusing time to be a non-Israeli Jew that supports the Palestinian peoples from Israeli brutality. I guess the same could be said about non-trump americans? Fuck brutality. Peace for all, regardless of political stripes.
A lot of parallels between netanyahu and trump, both barely have majority voting support and are starting false wars to delay domestic investigations.
Millions of Israeli Jews feel the same as you and have been voting against netanyahu.
I’m on the side of unarmed civilians with pro-social impulses.
Calling the genocide in Gaza terrorism cheapens the word. What is happening in Gaza is far beyond terrorism. If not for the pictures and video evidence, it would be a natural response to not want to believe something so utterly horrible and depraved to be contemporary.
I understand the sentiment of the meme though. It’s easy to believe what Israel is doing is righteous, if their victims are not considered human.
How about the dead Afghani’s? Iraqi’s? They were all terrorists…really??
Edit: Typo
Don’t forget the illegal settlers, I saw a video of an interaction where a settler literally calls the military group asking for support.
And they routinely get the support they ask for.
The USA has carpet bombed entire nations, more than one, into the dust.
They weren’t all enemy combatants, either.
Israel thinks they are in the right, just as the USA believed it was right (and Germany, Japan, UK, Russia, et al).
I don’t think they want a two-state solution, and I think the Palestinians agree, they also don’t want a two-state solution. Their long-term goals are to destroy the other (from the river to the sea).
Do all Palestinians and Jews agree? Of course not. But, the violent fundamentalists of both do agree.
History has proven that you can totally destroy Jerusalem, and fundamentalist Islam, Jews, and Christians will be more than happy to fight over the Holy Rubble.
How do you resolve this? The territory has been owned by Jews, Muslims, Christians; Babylon, Ottoman Empire, United Kingdom, Rome, Greeks, and more.
the violent fundamentalists of both do agree.
Conservatism(the tool of the Epstein class) is the real enemy. Consider that when the Obama admin was negotiating the nuclear deal with Iran, the people who fought against the deal were the conservatives in the UK, the US, Iran and Israel. They all wanted conflict instead.
It was the liberals around the world who supported a peaceful outcome.
You think your being funny, but i’ve lived in Alabama.
Not a lot of room between southern baptist and al-Qaeda.
There’s a reason I’ve been calling fundamentalist Christians in the US, “The Christian Taliban”
Talibangelicals
Y’all-Queda
Well?
i would argue you could expand “southern baptists” with “all fundamentalist evangelicals” especially if they subscribe to biblical infallibility.
they tried to brainwash me but i was able to escape. now my own family makes me feel unsafe.
Y-all kay duh?
Technically, terrorism is conducted by non-state actors against civilians.
If a state does it, it is either a crime against humanity or a war crime.
“Technically” there is no internationally accepted definition of terrorism.
It’s basically the first thing everyone learns when they study the subject.
As others already pointed out, there isn’t really a unified agreed upon definition of terrorism, but the vast majority those definitions overlap, with small differences between them here and there.
The probably most important part of those definitions is that the implementation of terror against your opponents has political motivations. War crimes in general on the other hand mostly don’t follow this same philosophy. The only modern day example that theoretically checks both boxes at once is stuff like the Russian terror bombing of civilians (the war crime part), thinking they’ll eventually bomb them into total submission and Russia will achieve their political goals (the terrorism part).
terror bombing of civilians (the war crime part), thinking they’ll eventually bomb them into total submission and Russia will achieve their political goals (the terrorism part).
Where have I heard that before…
That is the legal definition. Laws written and agreed upon by representatives of states. One has to consider that it is defined that way out of self-interest. Charges of terrorism are levied against the enemies of states, which are denied the recognition and privileges of statehood, while charges of war crimes exist only to legitimize states and are levied against the losers of imperialist wars by the victors.
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Brown schoolchildren… Eh who cares. I want cheap gas.
-America.
And we get the opposite.
Yeah. The second one is genocide and (often conveniently undeclared) war.
School shootings and ICE kidnapping innocent civilians are terrorism, though.
The funny thing is that Israel was behind both of them.
Let’s not pretend that the US is magically incapable of independently being vile, lol.
Israel as a nation state did not exist until 1948. We were committing atrocities well before that.
Federal, state and territorial governments of the US paid bounties for the scalps of Native Americans and in some states, for Mexicans as well. There was a mass depopulation effort to make room for settlers.
school shootings generally aren’t about achieving political or other goals
they’re mass murder; not terrorism
AFAIK the goal is often some sense of revenge.
And terrorism require political goals beyond the killing itself
Terrorism is the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, to achieve political, religious, or ideological goals.
Genocide is an international crime defined as specific acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
What happened in 2001 is in fact terrorism.
What’s happening in Gaza is in fact genocide.
Both are bad one is worse. If you can’t figure out which one is the worst one please reevaluate your life choices.
Gaza is both
Genocide is also terrorism.
Israel is committing act of genocide which is violent in the goal of extermination palestinians under the belief of the religious, policitical and ideological zionist mouvement
I literally just gave the definitions of the two terms. They are ideologically two completely different things.
Although I will grant that terrorism can turn into genocide.
Do you understand that an act can fit two legal definition? I literally showed in my comment why it also fit the act of terrorism
Honestly, I don’t really want to get bogged down in a semantic argument over whether particular acts committed during a genocide could also technically be described as terrorism. Both concepts describe horrific things, and I don’t think anyone benefits from pretending otherwise.
My objection is to conflating the two. A genocidal campaign can certainly contain acts that would also meet a definition of terrorism, but genocide is the more fundamental and consequential classification when the objective is the destruction of a people. Once you’re talking about genocide, arguing over whether individual acts within that campaign should additionally be labeled “terrorism” feels almost beside the point.
I’m a firm believer that precision in language matters. That’s exactly why I wouldn’t describe Zionists committing genocide merely as “terrorists.” If the conduct constitutes genocide, I think calling it terrorism actually does them a favor by framing the conduct primarily in terms of political violence or intimidation rather than the deliberate destruction of a protected population.
If you want to call particular acts within a genocidal campaign acts of terrorism, fine. I have no particular interest in fighting you over that distinction. They may well satisfy that description to some degree. But I don’t see why I should concede that terrorism is somehow the appropriate overarching characterization when we’re talking about genocide.
We’re not required to enumerate every potentially applicable offense in order to accurately describe what is happening. If someone commits a dozen crimes simultaneously, identifying the most consequential crime doesn’t mean we’re denying that the other crimes occurred. Sometimes the additional label simply isn’t relevant to the point being discussed.
So yes, terrorism and genocide can overlap. I just don’t think terrorism is the important distinction once the conduct has crossed into genocide. Genocide is the thing that needs to remain front and center.
If you can figure out
Do you mean, “if you can’t” ?
Yes. Corrected.
Those buildings were all command centers of Hamas.
/s
Fun Fact: Every act of genocide ever commited in human history has been done exclusively by conservatives.
Conservatives are truly, deeply evil. Disown them.
Stalin and Mao where conservatives?
Yes.
You mean because of the 5 billion deaths they caused, if we sum up all people that died in that time?
Compared to Netanyahu, Stalin and Mao were angels.
I desperately need to know who your plug is, so I accidentally don’t end up on the same thing you’re clearly on. Seriously man, wtf
I think he meant the between 40 to 80 million that died because of the mao regime. https://factsanddetails.com/china/cat2/sub6/item1081.html
And the 1.7 million deaths by gulag alone under Stalin
https://factually.co/fact-checks/history/stalin-soviet-union-death-toll-estimates-1920s-1953-ddd053
Stalin was literally fascist conservative though, like he got into power by pushing for The Old Ways and murdering all his competitors
I agree, i was just clarifying to the previous commenter who apparently didnt know about the gulag.
I am just saying that it’s ridiculous to add deaths by famine to their death tolls. We’re not doing that for any other leader, and it’s nothing but anti communist propaganda, otherwise we’d be doing it for people like american presidents too.
Also the website you’re linking is not very objective, the Wikipedia article about Mao gives a way more balanced picture.
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Damn, killed over half the current population of the world eh?
How many people did Mao intentionally kill? If you want to count all deaths by famine, you’d end up with crazy numbers in teh US too, specially if you’d add deaths by lack of medical insurancw or other avoidable deaths. But do we say "President X killed Y people (sum of above)?
Who caused 5 billion deaths? You sure mean million?
I am jokingly exaggerating the number to show how ridiculous it is to count deaths by famine that was not intentionally caused by Mao to his death toll.
Settler colonialism is genocidal by nature, guesssseug and what the Israeli liberal did genocidal acts
What? No, It’s like a Jewish version of Little House on the Prairie.
Many, many Israelis are conservatives. How do you not know that? Wait. You do know that. You’re just being dishonest for some reason.
Also, the opposite of conservative is progressive, not liberal. For example, neo-liberals like Chuck Schumer and Ronald Reagan are not progressive. They are conservative. The More You Know…
Olmert is liberal, Barack is liberal, Rabin, was liberal none support a totally independent Palestinian state. As much as I hate Conservatives they are not the only supporter of Genocide. Let’s not talk about the liberal West who, supporter Israel with weapons
Everyone you just mentioned is NOT progressive. You are only strengthening my position.
Modern “liberals” like Hakeem Jeffries or Gavin Newsom will pretend to be progressive by loudly supporting a few progressive policies while leaning right on everything else. It’s almost like they are conservatives in sheep’s clothing. And “centrists” (dishonest conservatives) point at these fake progressives and say “See?! That person is the opposite of a conservative!” That’s the deception you are trying to use here. Progressives are not fooled by that.
It sounds like you either don’t know what progressivism is, or you are pathological in your need to lie about it. Whatever the case is, you walk and talk the same as a conservative for some strange reason.
They are all from centrists liberals parties . It is a lazy answer to pretend some people are not what they are because it disapprove your argument .
Is Carney also a fake liberal for you? He also said he support a zionists palestine and he lied about ending arms sale to Israel so they continue the genocide
Again, you strengthen my position. Carney is NOT a progressive. And what is a “fake liberal”? Wtf are you on about?
You are just tossing word salad at a wall at this point. Trying to be as confusing as possible is also a conservative (AKA “centrist”) debate strategy that does not fool progressives.
Carney is a liberal and support a colonial genocidal, power called Israel
That’s right. The Soviets for example, are very well known today for spearheading the revolution against that evil far-left Russian Empire thing and we’re extremely lucky they ultimately won. Who knows what could’ve happened to all those small non-Russian minorities in furure decades, if Lenins’ movement didn’t step in!
(do we do the /s thing here too? lol)
And NO, I’m not a conservative, before someone starts screeching. I’m a centrist trying to appreciate the good parts from both of the extremes, while spitting on the bad. That is my ideology. So here I’m just trying to bring back a bit of that grey almost everyone apparently has completely forgotten existed, making the mainstream discourse almost exclusively black and white.
“I’m a centrist…”
So you admit you are a conservative. No one in today’s political landscape calls themselves a centrist unless they are slightly right of Hitler. Progressives are not fooled by that word.
Don’t be a twat. I very highly doubt you don’t hold some conservative views.
There is a difference between views and actions. So much horrible shit was done in the name of religion xyz. Does that make the religion inherently bad, or the people who did bad things in the name of it? Views and what is done because of those views are not one in the same.
For example. You could be upset about illegal migration. That is largely a conservative talking point. How you solve that could be evil like genocide, or something like making the immigration process actually possible in less than a decade.
So much horrible shit was done in the name of religion xyz. Does that make the religion inherently bad
That’s one reason, yes.
Ah, I see you are one of those smooth brained pricks who sees any form of religion as evil, even though it has also saved many people. To be clear, I’m an atheist, but that doesn’t mean my beliefs are inherently healthier than someone living for a cause greater than themselves.
Lol, stupid liberal thinks he made a valid point
Please explain to me (in detail, ideally), which part wasn’t valid. Do you seriously think we’re gonna move anywhere, ever, if we don’t drop the never ending black and white narratives?
(or are you referring to OP of the comment, I’m in my bed with a pretty serious concussion, so if that’s the case, my bad)
Americans were terrorists (not an army, but a militia, when fighting King George).
Terrorism doesn’t even have to kill people (though it often does).
also, genocide doesn’t even have to kill anybody (though it often does).
War kills, no exceptions. It’s rarely, if ever, military targets only.
the first is blow back for the second, as Chalmers Johnson said it would
Immortal technique 911 freestyle.
If you like that you’ll like this https://youtu.be/0SZEc2dr5Uk
And if you like that you’ll love this https://youtu.be/YoNiroVRJJM
What’s that second image? This being a meme I suppose it is either Palestine or Iran - in both cases I’d argue it isn’t terrorism. It sure is equally horrifying at least, but not every (mass)-killing is terrorism. It, if my assumption is right, both is killing of civilians. Or by legal definition, non-combatants. Targeting non-combatants is illegal according to international law. Not that any of these perpetrators care, but not holding them accountable is the real terror imo.
It’s Gaza, but it could have just as easily been Assad’s Syria.
War makes a lot of places look like this, especially if the warring parties don’t care about civilians. Unfortunately that’s not limited to Iran and Gaza, or Syria.
It’s Gaza.
If you don’t think destroying all the hospitals, water infrastructure, schools, and nearly every building in what is effectively a concentration camp is terrorism… You had better be calling it a genocide
Yeah i do consider what is happening in Gaza a genocide. My pont is that there is a definition connected to words like genocide and terrorism, and in that sense the images are not displaying the same thing. Sure, they are both horrible; but if the bottom image is Gaza than that is not terrorism, just like the attack on 9/11 wasn’t conventional warfare. I get that the meme is going for ‘when they do it, it’s horrible; when we do it, it’s fine’, and OP is right; both are horrible and both caused a lot of suffering. Those responsible need to be held accountable.
I think it’s Gaza.
Wasn’t 9/11 retaliation born from a coup or something to do with assad?
Afghanistan, Palestine, US bases in Arab lands and cruel and crippling sanctions against Iraq:
https://www.newsweek.com/osama-bin-laden-911-letter-transcript-12427271
“The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq,” bin Laden wrote. “This is why the American people cannot be innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.”
If you strip out the religious speech from the declaration their reasons for doing this are pretty “rational”. The religion is mostly the ideological bond between different peoples. Besides some very problematic religious repression.
If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice … then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.
The larger strategy was pretty clear, draw the US into unsustainable wars that shorten their “unipolar moment” of being the only global superpower.
You mean they didn’t “hate us for our freedoms” like the Dubya administration kept telling us?
I wonder how many people who actually thought about that line for half a minute still thought it was accurate.
I mean they do hate the “obscenities” in the west which I guess they mean gays and whatnot. But so do the christofascists that were hiding behind Bush. And it’s not what really drives them, it’s like just one paragraph. They wouldn’t actually go to war for something like this.
westure culture is built on a fake foundation that requires constant patching, manipulation, and war to keep functional. It’s an insane concept. Instead of living with the universe and nature, we actively created our own system that nature and the universe is constantly breaking down. We live against the grain of universal growth.
Native cultures warned us, Islam warns us (not western Islam), nature warns us…
Afghanistan. The CIA created instability within the country arming fundamentalists that caused a nasty civil war. The point was to bait the Soviets into a quagmire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War
Not enough people consider the world stage when they think about their microcosms!
At the time, they made a big hullabaloo about the U.S. stationing troops in Saudi Arabia, the country of the holiest sites, during and after desert shield/storm.
I honestly don’t know what is a sincerely held belief and what is pretextual.
