Huh … the Klan switched to neck gaiters and khaki hats.
History is weird.
I wonder if anybody asked her to move.
The neo-Nazi losers should remove their masks.
this is going to be another one of those historic photos that textbooks will use to illustrate america’s proud history of bigotry…
It’s like the uno reverse card of how public transportation usually works.
They all gathered in one place.
Looks like we missed a golden opportunity.
These guys always travel in packs. That’s why groupthink works so well on them. Where are the lone wolf white supremacist’s? No where, because being alone leads to self-reflection and obvious conclusions.
These guys always travel in packs.
Sounds like they’re trying to make it easier for us to deal with them in one go.
Group think is absolutely an issue, and deindividuation leads to people going further as a group than they would. You’re right. Lone actor grievance fuelled violence is also a risk with white supremacists. And there’s often a lot of indoctrination via social media.
Oh damn it… I fucking hate humans…
I feel bad for her. It must of been scary to be on the same train as those crazy hateful weirdos
They’re scared of her, how can I tell? Those pissweak white balaclavas.
Are these the same guys that wouldn’t wear COVID masks?
Yes.
100%
The “I can’t breathe” crowd.
Every one of them has their faces covered… Hard to convince people of your pride when you are too scared to show your faces.
What a pack of pussies
Edit: really seemed to have pissed off some nazis with this one… Good.
They always are. My experience with bullies is that when you hit back, they are more fearful than you initially were.
Come on this argument sucks. Antifascists also cover their faces and it doesnt take anything away from them [aka antifascists].
And they [aka white supremacists] want to scare, do crimes & violence and want to get away with it. Wearing masks is actually the best way to show that you plan on doing exactly that. It 100% fits what they aka white supremacists] want to achieve.
Edit: Well the replies showed me that I missed the social cue for “I just want to hate on nazis here, not have a discussion about narratives that one might reproduce when doing so”. Fair. Also remember to support your local Antifa / antifascists.
& clarified pronouns because of feedback
antifa cover because the gov will murder them.
nazis cover because they are gov or are afraid of public opinion reminding them how punchable they are.
your reply is a false equivalence.
So you mean both use it to hide from their enemies?
This is the “Hitler was a vegetarian so you’re a nazi if you’re a vegetarian” argument. Intent and context matter. Is all violence equal for you, as well?
Sorry, but is that really what you get from my comments in this chain of comments? That this is my point? Because then I really need to work on my way of phrasing things…
Yes. Your whole concept is that if you do something the fascists do then you’re the same thing. Tactics and motives aren’t intrinsically paired, the same objective activity can have entirely different motivations from one group to the next. Anonymity is a tool, it says nothing of motive other than not wanting to be identified, and the motives to oppress and to stop oppression can both utilize it for entirely opposing reasons to achieve entirely opposing goals. Fascists use guns to kill people, but guns also kill fascists, there are only so many tools and not using a hammer because the guy you hate uses a hammer to do things you don’t like, even though you can use a hammer to do different things than what they use it for, just means you don’t have a hammer to do the things a hammer is needed to do.
Everything what you wrote is just based on this assumption:
Your whole concept is that if you do something the fascists do then you’re the same thing.
Which is just not true. But maybe that misunderstanding highlights where I could work on my phrasing.
mathematically speaking: yes. except nuance indicates one cohort is a group of fascists hell bent on destroying people for who they are, and the other cohort is about destroying people and systems for who they CHOOSE to be.
Being a nazi is a choice. A choice that the public should remind you, daily, that you have immutably given up your humanity.
Being against fascism is a choice that should remind you that you chose humanity and chose to fight the inhuman pieces of shit the who seek to destroy it.
Yeah for sure all of that. I agree with every word you say and I think you also phrased it beautifully.
I still dont really get the backlash against pointing out that nazis wearing masks is actually pretty reasonable from their perspective and not really a sign of weakness (weakness isnt even a bad thing yo) or hypocrisy.
My flippant reaction was just based on the replies that tried to point out supposedly false equivalence when none of my comments stated that I viewed fascists and antifascists even remotely in the same category of morally good or bad.
Reading comprehension is piss poor and the majority of people are more reactive than logical. We live in a mock for mock society who’s only goal is to own the opposition. Call a nazi anything but a put down, and I do so love (/s) how often the people who are supposed to be on my side will use misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic language to do so, is seen as siding with them instead of an actual threat assessment.
Someone will misread my comment and be mad about it.
Even if reading comprehension would be a mayor factor in this discussion, I want to be able to write out my thoughts in a way that is easily understood by different levels of reading comprehension. I think its also about context awareness which I sometimes struggle with. And also going the extra mile of writing out disclaimers so there is not such a response based on assumptions.
and I do so love (/s) how often the people who are supposed to be on my side will use misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic language to do so
Yeah I feel like people are not really great at seeing how this can hurt their own comrades and those groups whoe they want to support as well.
backlash
it’s because there is nothing to be gained by applying the label “reasonable” to anything, at all, a fascist does. anything. mask reasons, especially. they are here to kill, only to kill, and they need to be treated as such. applying “reasonable” to them, as if they are humans at all, is an incorrect move.
You are just wrong here. Being able see fascists motivations, understanding their reasoning and figuring out their strategies is one of the keys to defeat them. And you don’t have to treat them differently just because you are able to make sense out of their behavior, because why should you?
Who is antifa bcz last I checked that wasn’t an organized group? All it means is anti-fascist, which anyone with a brain should be in favor of.
That is a false equivalence.
Antifascists mask up so they don’t get doxxed or targeted by fascists. Meanwhile, these guys are literally marching because they believe they are the “superior race.” If you genuinely think you’re a superior race but you’re still too terrified of the real world to show your face you’re just a pussy.
Antifascists mask up so they don’t get doxxed or targeted by fascists.
Nazis literally do the same thing, just the words “Antifascists” and “fascists”.
Also the second talking point is thrown around by liberals, conservatives and in my country also some communists when people talk about masking up. I believe the act of masking up usually does not impact the idea one does stand for, so antifascists, activists and anarchists who mask up are just as legit as those that dont. And Nazis that dont wear mask are as shitty as those that wear a mask
So because both sides wear pants, we can’t criticise what’s in their pockets?
It isn’t about the physical act of putting a mask on. It’s about the massive hypocrisy of marching around claiming you’re the ‘superior race’ while being too terrified of public opinion to show your face.
We can absolutely call them pussies for that.
Seems like we dont really come to any conclusion here, because I dont really see the hypocrisy in that. Like genuinely. Might be because I mask up for protests/actions I attend and I never feel hypocritic about that. Like I feel I still fully stand behind my opinions and ideals and thats why I have a real hard time imagining how that would apply to others.
Besides, why use sexist language like pussy? In my experience its mostly used to shame people for not adhering to a toxic masculine ideal, which is something we should get past IMO
You mask up when you fight almost unbeatable enemy (gov). You dont mask up when you fight normal dude, girl, little boy.
Besides, why use sexist language like pussy?
it’s short for pusilanimous, not a body part reference.
Sorry but I doubt anyone knowing the word pusilanimous would actively decide to use the easily misunderstood short form.
Nah, they don’t do the same things.
Antifascists strive for humanity. Fascists don’t.
Nah, they don’t do the same things.
Yes they dont do the same things.
But I wrote: thing. Whitout “s”. So my comment was just focused on the act of masking up as a way to stop consequences of their action.
Did I write my comment in a way that made it seem like I thought antifascists do the same thingS as nazis? Because if so, please tell me how I can improve my phrasing so that I dont get 10 angry antifascists in my replies that seem to think that is what I actually mean or communicate.
That is a false equivalence.
It’s not though… It’s weird to see how willing people are to twist logic and facts just because they hate somebody though. Like you are just bending over backwards to make the same action (masking) for the same reasons (to avoid personal backlash) seem justified on the one hand and not on the other.
To be clear - these Nazis can and should die in a fire. But this isn’t a “false equivalence”.
It’s a false equivalence because context matters.
Antifascists mask up because being doxxed by extremists can lead to actual physical harm or job loss just for opposing hate. These marchers mask up because they know promoting Nazi ideology carries social consequences. Protecting your safety from extremists is not the same as protecting your reputation because you are a racist.
Members of the group in the picture (patriotic front) just recently got doxxed which resulted in them losing jobs, atleast thats what the press reports. Which is good btw and I find it good.
I am not saying this to make them look good or give them sympathy, but for them its also more then just social consequences and also a matter of safety. And yes its not in the same level as is for antifascists & anarchists, I know that.
Losing your job is just a social consequence.
Wow what a classist thing to say.
“Yes, you see the difference is that I agree with the motives of one side and not the other.”
This is just special pleading.
And here we have an example of the average American incapable of abstract thought.
And you’ve given us an example of the left’s complete lack of critical thought so long as it advances your political arguments.
social consequences
Like
physical harm or job loss
?
the gov literally murders antifascist protestors and lets nazi ones get away clean.
antifa masks because uncle sam will shoot them.
nazis mask because they are uncle sam or don’t want the public punching them for being nazis. they are ashamed. until which point they feel safe enough to not mask and be full 1940 mode.
this is why we must never tolerate nazis. they are not human.
Holy shit dude are you fuckin for real? You understand that context absolutely can make an action justified that would otherwise not be. What you’re saying is that self defense is just as bad as assault because they’re both violence. Which is, you know, real fuckin dumb.
What you’re saying is that self defense is just as bad as assault because they’re both violence.
No. I’m absolutely not saying that.
Ok then explain in detail with multiple examples what you are saying. Because I’m pretty sure that’s what you were saying.
Ok then explain in detail with multiple examples
I’m sorry do I owe you that much of my time? Fuck off.
Looks like the people here don’t want to hear it, but you’re absolutely right about this.
no, he is not right. one group is hiding because they are afraid of violent repercussions as the result of antifascist actions taken. their lives are at stake.
one group is just cowardly and doesn’t want images of them as nazis to show their faces. but then still do nazi shit.
massive difference. stop defending nazis rights to spew hatred from the shadows. if they want to be racist fuckwits, they can do it in the light.
Lol, dude…no one is defending Nazis here. No one is defending what they say and do while they are masked. That’s an entirely different discussion that you’re trying to have.
The question is about why these groups of people wear masks, and the answer is the same for both…to avoid backlash. Just because we see one group’s actions as socially justified and the other’s as unjustifiable (and rightly so) doesn’t change the fact that they have the same reasons for hiding their identities.
I too, think it’s cowardly that these fascist groups hide behind masks. I too, think it’s unacceptable for LEOs to wear masks. And I have no qualms about those who fight back against them wearing masks to protect themselves. That’s the context you’re looking for, but not what was being discussed here.
It’s the difference between asking:
- Why do these groups of people hide their identites?
vs
- is it acceptable for these groups of people to hide their identites?
That’s reductive to the point of being disingenuous, never mind adding nothing the conversation. Are you a contrarian by nature or are you just deliberately trying to muddy the waters here, or what’s your agenda?
No he’s not, that’s a stupid ass take that disregards context and nuance. You really trying to argue self defense and assaulting minorities are totally equivalent because they’re both violence? That’s fucking stupid to an impressive degree.
I think the difference is that these white supremacists are necessarily committing crimes.
The people wearing masks to commit crimes don’t want to get caught and criminally charged.
These white supremacists don’t want to be socially shamed for what they’re doing.
They both don’t out of fear of repercussions.
The difference is that these white supremacists are afraid of being identified standing up for what they believe in, and the antifa in your example are afraid of receiving criminal charges.
I think that’s a noteworthy difference.
Yes I totally see that difference and I feel nothing what I wrote indicates that I dont.
What I dont get is, how people come to the conclusion that I dont see the difference. Like is it my phrasing or the context of this specific discussion?
You said that the argument that these people are cowards sucks because
Antifascists also cover their faces and it doesnt take anything away from them.
And they want to scare, do crimes & violence and want to get away with it. Wearing masks is actually the best way to show that you plan on doing exactly that. It 100% fits what they want to achieve.
I was making the point that the white supremacists cover their faces out of cowardice (as others have said) because they simply don’t want to be seen standing up for their beliefs. On the contrary, as you stated, Antifa would be covering their faces to prevent being held responsible for crimes.
I would imagine that Antifa people sharing and standing up for their beliefs in non-criminal ways wouldn’t be masked. The masks are to keep them out of jail.
The masks on the white supremacists are to keep other people from knowing they have these beliefs. This is what makes them cowards, without also making Antifa cowards.
Thank you for trying to explain your viewpoint. Based on that I can understand where you are coming from even if I disagree.
Cheers!
you’ve got some unclear pronouns. a few of the Theys could be referring to either group depending on your assumptions.
Yeah reading with that in mind I can see that. Thanks for that feedback.
Tired of seeing this type of comment anytime someone points out the fact that theyre fucking cowards they don’t deserve any explanation as to why they’re covering their face. Scared of repercussions for being pussy ass racists. Stop trying to validate them.
Make better argument then. Some of you people i swear I’d rather be arguing against than with.
It’s so frustrating to see such terrible arguments and judgement shown by people you otherwise agree with.
antifa cover because the gov will murder them.
nazis cover because they are gov or are afraid of public opinion reminding them how punchable they are.
You do realize you’ve just provided the same argument for why each group covers their faces - because they both fear retribution. Just from different sources.
Nazis don’t deserve better arguments wtf. Its as simple as that. What’s next? “Maybe we shouldn’t use violence against them theyre people with families”
Nazis don’t deserve better arguments
“I’m going to make stupid arguments when it supports my preconceived conclusions” is quite the flex.
This is how MAHA operates.
How you think is as important or even more important than the conclusions you come to. You frankly owe it to yourself to make better arguments and to practice critical thinking or you’ll just be a tool of the mob.
Right wing whataboutism strikes again. This was old a decade ago, if you can’t see the difference, you’re an idiot or an enemy of society
Clever to tell a visibly queer person (check my pronouns), active on an leftwing instance which is moderating explicitly antifascist communities, that they dont see the difference. Must be feel good to mark me as an
an enemy of society
or call me something ableist.
Btw I usually enjoy being called an enemy of society, but only when its done by conservatives
Okay, you’re so great with all your stuff on your resume or whatever. So then why are you making nazi talking points your thing too?
I hate Illinois Nazis.
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It really annoys me that these guys wear khakis as part of their “uniform”. I’m a rancher and I really liked to wear khakis because they’re light but pretty tough when I’m on the land. But I just can’t wear em anymore cause I’m white and middle aged sonI jusy don’t wanna get mistaken for one of these fucks. They ruined it for me. Wear something else fuckers!!
After living off-grid for a few years I developed “the look”, complete with massive beard. And now suddenly these fucks think I’m one of them.
Quite often have to deal with comments that are quiet and only ‘kinda’ racist. But I have been handed a card and asked to attend their white supremacists meetings. Unfortunately this always happens at work where I can’t respond appropriately.
Those bastards weaponized Dockers.
I know how to fix this and all it is is getting lesbians to start wearing dockers.
“Give it up dude, she is Doc Martens Dockers Butch.”
those motherfuckers ruined fred perry shirts!
For sure everyone can tell you’re dressing up as a boring white male by wearing khakis, but I assume that matches the rest of your attire? So you’re fine, if a slightly dull stereotype.
As long as you’re not wearing this bananas cap-sunglasses-balaclava thing! Try a skirt
Agreed, just add something that signals “not one of THOSE people”. Maybe a rainbow- or ally-flag bandana, a black lives matter pin, or maybe just a friendly cartoony T-shirt under your khaki jacket. Add a rainbow or BLM patch to your jacket. Tbh, something as milquetoast as a pink “breast cancer awareness” ribbon would probably work.
this is exactly how i feel about polo shirts now too…
Look into patterned polos. I wear floral polo shirts as my self-chosen daily work uniform. I don’t think I’m giving off a fascy vibe.
I don’t think anyone is going to think you’re a white nationalist because you’re white and in khakis.
Yeah without the hat, mask, and sunglasses you’ll just look like a dude
But you’re probably right.
I like to jokingly describe my everyday attire as “surplus chic”, because the stuff lasts like decades and I need lots of pockets. I feel self conscious sometimes that I might be mistaken for some fashy.
But you know what? We concede WAY too much ground to these bullying troglodytes. Off-the-shelf clothes shouldn’t be enough to be an obvious “uniform.”
Don’t let these bastards take your khakis. “We” already let them take the flag, and patriotism, and the second amendment conversation, and Nordic / Viking symbology for some frickin reason.
We didn’t fight hard enough for it, just said “Ah well we’re the opposite of those things, please don’t take those too.”
I’m reminded of an anecdote that makes me laugh every time. When my wife was in high school she was stopped for wearing gloves (fashiony, Hot Topic kinda things). “Gloves are commonly worn by gangs.” They said. She responded:
“Well, hope gangs don’t start wearing pants any time soon!”
XD
We need that attitude. Some friggin proudboys wanna take the symbol of the flag our forefathers died over? They think because they put some nazis in the whitehouse and shit on senators’ desks we’re gonna give up our tactical wear and doorkicking boots? Like we should be afraid to rock red white and blue because we might be mistaken for one of them?!
They should be worried they might accidentally be mistaken for some actual damn Americans. Who is the real U.S.A? If I recall correctly the “U” comes from the UNION winning that particular dispute.
We should be rocking that Gadsten flag, warning them not to tread upon us.
They want to co-opt khakis, polos, even entire colors? We should adopt it harder.
Good luck telling who’s in their stupid goon squads. They need to be reminded that hate hath no friends.
TL;DR: Wanna take our country’s freedom, our rights, our flag, our guns, pickup trucks, cowboy hats if you’re into that kinda thing, our freakin’ KHAKIS?!
Molṑn fuckin’ labé, pendejos.
Nordic / Viking symbology for some frickin reason
I was at one protest where a wannabe Nazi skidmark with a rune-covered shirt (which I’m sure he can’t read) was on the incel side and a more androgynous, actually-practicing Norse pagan was on the good side.
No Nazis in Valhalla. Yes, that includes you, Kash Patel.
I see only a very brave woman, and a bunch of cowards.
I wanna see one of these cowards in train full of black panthers.
I want to see one of those cowards in a train full of actual panthers, i.e. large cats of the genus Panthera.
Lol. Never get tired of that.
ngl one small part of me wants to see them on a train to Auschwitz.
But I mustn’t stoop.
“We have a new prison camp … it needs lots of … guards. Please step on this train to be hired.”
Hoods, masks, and shame… “cowards” only scratches the surface of these fucks
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