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Joined 3 years ago
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Cake day: June 13th, 2023

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  • Personally, I find a lot of Peter Singer’s arguments to be pretty questionable. As for some of the ones you’ve mentioned:

    For one, killing humans, no matter how humanely the means, is seen by most to be an act of cruelty. I do not want to be killed in my sleep, so why is it okay to assume that animals would be okay with it? While he is a utilitarian and doesn’t believe in rights, killing a sentient being seems to me to have much greater negative utility than the positive utility of the enjoyment of eating a chicken.

    Also, farming animals for slaughter will always be destructive towards habitats and native species. Even if broiler chickens were kept alive for their natural lifespan of 3-7 years instead of 8 weeks to alleviate any kind of ethical issue with farming them, there is still an opportunity and environmental cost to farming chickens. We could use that land for to cultivate native species and wildlife, or for growing more nutritious and varied crops for people to eat, yet instead we continue to raze the amazon rainforest to make more land for raising farm animals and growing feed. De-densification of farms would only make the demand for farmland even greater than it already is.

    Finally, the de-densification of farms would mean a significant increase in the costs of mear production. We’d be pricing lower income groups out of eating meat, while allowing middle- and upper-class folks to carry on consuming animal products as usual. We should not place the burdens of societal progress on the lower class.




  • Section 3a of the bill is the part that would be used to target LGBTQ content.

    Sections 4 talks about adding better parental controls which would give general statistics about what their kids are doing online, without parents being able to see/helicopter in on exaxrlt what their kids were looking at. It also would force sites to give children safe defaults when they create a profile, including the ability to disable personalized recommendations, placing limitations on dark patterns designed to manipulate children to stay on platforms for longer, making their information private by default, and limiting others’ ability to find and message them without the consent of children. Notably, these settings would all be optional, but enabled by default for children/users suspected to be children.

    I think the regulations described in section 4 would mostly be good things. They’re the types of settings that I’d prefer to use on my online accounts, at least. However, the bad outweighs the good here, and the content in section 3a is completely unacceptable.

    Funnily enough, I had to read through the bill twice, and only caught on to how bad section 3a was on my second time reading it.


  • I tried for a while to make those small changes, but I always found it too hard to do, until I finally just decided to cut out all animal products one night, and I never really went back.

    I think the difference was how I framed it, mentally. I always saw it as an act of willpower to not eat animal products, like I have to overcome my cravings in the same way I would if I was cutting calories. But quitting animal products altogether allowed me to frame it differently for myself – instead of telling myself “I shouldn’t eat this”, I can just say “I don’t eat this.” Like, it’s not on the table as something I have to consider. I don’t even have to recognize animal products as food.

    Maybe if you cut things out one at a time you could do a similar thing. Though one problem is that it’s a series of changes and commitments you have to make, instead of just one thing. I feel like that could be harder, depending on who you are.


  • The comments responding to you are pretty unnecessarily hostile, but I personally get where you’re coming from. I personally think it’s best to watch the thing so that you can be best informed, even if it’s hard to do. Not even because of veganism being ethical, but because the fear of the unknown is a lot scarier than any documentary could be, IMO. Information is power, and having information (even distressing information) is empowerment.

    Also, I loved meat too, but when I went vegan, I never really missed it. I was pretty worried about missing certain foods (one was sushi), but that never really happened to me.


  • Even if you accept the premise that so-called ethically raised meat is ethical, there’s just not enough land to farm meat at the scale which people in developed countries demand it, unless it’s factory farmed. Ethically farmed, free range animals require much more space than caged up factory farmed animals, and the grass they feed on requires yet more land.

    That means that there’s a limit on the supply, so I’m pretty sure that if someone tries to solve the whole animal rights issue by buying ethical meat, they’ll only push the ethical dilemma on to someone poorer than them (the one who would be priced out, due to the increased demand). That person would then have to be the one to make the decision of whether to go vegan or to buy factory farmed meat.

    Admittedly, I could be wrong about this? But I’m pretty sure that increasing land use of meat, whether by regulation or economic demand, would necessarily lead to increased prices, so I don’t see how it possibly wouldn’t just shift the problem on to the less wealthy.


  • I find it difficult to accept your description of a vegan lifestyle, being subsumed and made digestible by mainstream vegans who don’t care much for the politics aspect. I don’t believe that accounts for the majority of vegans, at least based on the surveys I’ve looked at. Perhaps I am wrong and many vegans just don’t really care, but based on my experiences, I just find that a little hard to accept.

    Also, on the topic of hunting locally sourced meat, I think it’s sort of irrelevant to the discussion of veganism. Regardless of my, or another vegan’s opinion of how ethical it is, hunting doesn’t provide enough quantity of meat to ever fulfill every human being’s current demand for meat. To be able to provide good, healthy and ethical food for everyone, the majority of it would have to be plants. The end of monoculture crops and factory farming cannot possibly happen without a significant reduction of demand for animal meat in developed countries, regardless of how the meat is sourced.

    It’s not that I aim to villify hunting, it’s just that hunting is neither here nor there, in my opinion. It is what it is, and I’m not primarily concerned with it.


  • I apologize for my wording, the intent of my statement was not to refer to you as a “colonizer corporatist”, I was referring to your comment about multinational corporations in bangladesh. I meant to say that many vegans care about situations like that, in the same way that you care about them. Deepest apologies for my poor wording there.





  • Vegans and vegetarians are on average poorer than people who eat meat, so the penthouse thing is mostly fiction.

    Also, veganism is defined as not consuming animal products where it’s possible and practicable. If it’s not practical for someone to not consume animal products, then that’s just how it is. A vegan would not argue for one to eliminate animal products to the detriment their own health, well being, or livelihood. Instead, a vegan should only advocate eliminating animal products when you’re in a position that it’s safe and reasonable to do so.

    Vegans are just as much concerned with people who have been forced into shitty living situations by colonizers and multinational corporations as you are. Just because they care about animals, doesn’t mean they think animals are more important than people.